There is a medical term called hybristophilia. The definition refers to people who are attracted those who commit heinous acts. I was talking to an inmate named Neil who has been on our podcast, Sex, Love, and Serial killers a few times. Let me give you all the set up here, what started it all. Neil came on the show to talk about his crimes and what he has done since then to work on himself. That led to a former girlfriend of his that he was seeing while in prison to go to our social media pages and make comments claiming that he was lying. That led to several ladies coming on to the social media feed to defend him. THAT led to Neil coming back on the show again, which led down a rabbit hole and me asking him about dating in the prison system. With all of that said, I remembered that there is a term for those who are attracted to people like Neil called hybristophilia.
I reached out to a few of the other inmates that I talk to including serial killer Todd Kohlhepp and asked him if he gets love letters and such from women who are on the outside and he said that yes, he has a whole fan club of women who reach out to him. He has had several marriage proposals as well. There are even women that want clippings of his hair, or body fluids such as semen and, well, you get the point. That got to thinking, what is the point? Why would anyone want to “date someone in prison when you can’t have a real physical relationship with them?” I found out that in some states you can still have conjugal visits with your partner. States such as California allow what they call “family time” if you are married but also in a domestic partnership situation. That was updated just a few years ago to include the partnership aspect of “family time”. It is a private visit with your partner or spouse so that you can be intimate away from the prying eyes of others.
The law was updated because of the increasing number of transgender and gay couples. I myself totally get it all around. Think about a what motivates us to do what we do. I know that if I was in prison and I had the opportunity to have sex with my partner if I didn’t get into trouble, I would walk a straight line. It is a great incentive to exhibit good behavior while I am incarcerated. It works well beyond the bounds of traditional marriage and partnerships as well. For example, in California there are a few prisons that house mainly those who are gay or transgender. I am of the belief that a person’s rights shouldn’t stop at where your sexuality begins. I remember years ago when I visited serial killer Keith Jesperson aka The Happy Face Killer who is in the Oregon State Penitentiary in Salem, OR. He looked across the table at me and asked me this question. “What keeps me from coming across this table and attacking you?” I said “Easy, there are guards here in the day room and I am not the same as your victim pool.” I said that with a lot of confidence thinking that I was 100% correct. Keith looked at me and said “Nope. You see, I am in an honor dorm here. I have a TV in my room, and I get a lot of freedom here in the prison to do what I want. There is a small area where we can play mini golf on the other side of this wall in the yard, and I get to draw and paint. If I step out of line, they start taking those things away from me.
As I went further down the rabbit hole of dating while in prison, I started to wonder what the attraction was for someone who is incarcerated. I mean, outside of the whole hybristolphila thing. As I pondered this whole thing, I came up with a short list in my head that I needed to confirm. 1. safety, you know that your partner isn’t going to be sneaking over another girl or guy’s house. They also can’t hurt you physically because there are guards all around. If you are someone who has been physically abused in the past, the safety factor might be in play. 2. Incarcerated people are usually very happy to get to talk to anyone especially someone who will give them romantic attention. 3. Maybe it is a self-esteem issue? I started thinking that maybe they think that they only deserve someone like a prisoner? I’m not shaming anyone by the way. I have been there myself, choosing ladies that were abusive and users because I thought that was what I deserved at the time. 4. Maybe it is a family issue. What I mean is, maybe they were raised in an environment that most of thief family has been locked up, a learned behavioral response. I reached out to a few people and here is what I found out.
To Savannah: My questions. 1. What attracts you to inmates? 2. Everyone needs intimacy, how does that work when your partner is in prison, and you are not? 3. I would think that trust is difficult on both sides, how do you and your man deal with that?
Question 1. Savannah answered “Ok, gotcha. So that attracts me to inmates? I have always loved a bad boy. It’s not necessary for them to have some heinous crime, just an edge. I call it “prison seasoning”. I think that there is a lot of misunderstanding about women that make those kinds of relationships. It’s always she must have low self-esteem. she must be overweight, and she can’t find anyone else so she’s ok being a wallet. That is definitely a factor sometimes. It started out that was with my first husband as a matter of fact. I think that most of the time it is the freedom that you have being in a relationship with a man with no freedom. You can do what you want and still have a man just throwing attention and love at you even if it’s not totally real. So, at the end of the day, you still get the attention, but you don’t gotta to share your bed every night. You can do what you want, go where you want, and not worry about having to deal with some guy on your bumper.
Question 2. Intimacy… I’m gonna be really honest. Not all of us are faithful. That broke me and Neil up. I couldn’t not be intimate. He can’t get family visits, so I strayed. A few times. I think a lot of women do. They just want to keep the pure loyal image up. In all reality they’re out fuckin and suckin and chuckin whoever they want but they don’t gotta worry about commitment because the dudes probably know they have a man that’s locked up. Now if they can get family visits then that’s easy. U just stay celibate for a few months between fuck visits. If the booty is good, then you don’t need anything else. Easy peasy. There’s also the fact that intimacy comes in different forms. The intimacy I had with Neil was deeper than the sex I threw it away for. I was just so hungry to have physical contact and to feel wanted and attractive that I reached for temp satisfaction. Other than that. we take ourselves on dates. Fingers fly and we get the job done. I’m the best I ever had, and it don’t take long to get there ya know? Phone sex is another thing a lot of people do but for me it was always embarrassing.
Question 3. OH, the trust issues. I think you start out like every relationship. But I feel like anyone that says they have no trust issues (even after years) is a liar. There’s so much he said she said and there’s guys in there trying to help their homeboys with a hook up even if they have a girl. Sometimes I think that’s because they see someone w a good woman and they want that to fail because mystery loves company. And I think sometimes nothing is enough in there, so the guys are always trying to find a source for “more”. More money, more support, more stuff, more pictures …. think in a situation like incarceration there are not many that are completely forthcoming and faithful. On the flip side… I already told you about the straying and the not so faithful life of a prison wife. That’s not to say that some aren’t completely 100 percent with their men but a lot of them aren’t. The men are always gonna be trippin when we go out with our friends, when we don’t drop everything, we are doing to answer the phone or do a video chat. There’s a lot of truth on both sides to the whole guilty people accuse. And insecure people need a lot of reassurance. I spent a lot of time asking for that. More and more reassurance. That stems also from my lack of self-esteem and self-worth. Trust and insecurity in a prison relationship is the same as on the streets. Just times a million lol. This is part of why I’m in therapy as much as I am. So, I can learn to be ok with being alone. So, I can maybe one day find a solid relationship out here on the streets. Find fulfillment in love outside of bars. There are many reasons I’m in therapy actually lol…but that’s one.
After reading Savannah’s response I thought that I would reach out to a few of the inmates that I talk to. The first one was Todd Kohlhepp, a convicted serial killer in South Carolina. He was my first choice because I knew that his answers to the three questions would be colorful to say the least. Here is what he said
Question 1. Why pursue a relationship with someone on the outside? Easy answer is because roommate wearing mophead wig and latex gloves full of water titties just doesn’t work for everyone. Besides, more to a relationship than sex. I was horrible with relationships when outside, constantly cheating, having mistresses and overall being self-absorbed in what I wanted to do which was always working my ass off, so I didn’t have to actually deal with having a relationship in the first place. Commitment issues big time so if I didn’t take it seriously, can’t lose what I never really had. I’m here forever, no chance of getting out for a normal relationship, but sometimes everyone needs someone in their lives to vent, express goals, share life ventures in a place where there is a huge void. Being human and sharing some humanity, not always focused on the harsh reality of being alone, all while surrounded by a thousand others that want to pull you into their depression and hopelessness. I like having people in my life and can give back just as much as they give. Everyone needs someone in their life, we were not intended to be isolated from others. I find that being away from my cell phone and hustle of business, I can relax and think more of other, not treating relationships as disposable items anymore. Having someone in your life, even on other side of a fence, makes us better people.
question 2. Everyone needs intimacy. How does that work with being on the inside? Its not as hard as you would think. Sexually, there is everything from late night phone calls to sexting on the messaging system, if you have a cell phone there will be photos and videos sent back and forth. I’m rather fond of threesomes, so I bring my sock puppet into it for mutual fun and satisfaction, it is what you make of it and if you use your roommates’ socks for that, don’t be surprised if you now own a new pair of socks. Intimacy isn’t about sex anyhow, it’s about spending quality time with someone you care about in any way possible, no different than a soldier and their family back stateside. Lots of limitations, lots of ways to make it work if you are willing to try. Visits, video visits, letters, calls, drawings, emails, etc. There are a lot of ways now to spend time with someone doing time.
Question 3. I would think that trust is difficult on both sides. How do you and the ladies deal with that issue? I have never been a trusting type, there is a reason my gun had a gun. I don’t trust my toothbrush, so trusting a person is very difficult for me. That said, I am learning and very much a work in progress. At the same time my options are very simple, learn to accept and trust or realize the friendship isn’t real. I would rather change my ways since my living arrangement clearly shows my past ways didn’t work out so well. My lady just has to trust that I am not having sex with a punk or talking to several other ladies in the same manner I do her, all while I have to trust her to be real and upfront with me about what she is doing out there. The sock puppet love has not been an issue between us even though that cotton hussy gets used, abused and tossed in the laundry. Since I am here forever and of my own doing, I am not demanding of anything, including abstinence on the part of my other, I just ask that she be honest with me… And occasionally yell out my name while having sex just to keep him on his toes. Then again Scott occasionally also calls out my name just to keep his girl on Her’s, or so he says. Scott is weird, but shy and timid he isn’t. Freak! Biggest thing about mutual trust is to be just open and honest, being on opposite sides of a fence creates one hell of a safe zone to talk about anything and it literally can’t go anywhere else. The ladies outside are in control, know exactly where their man is and when, without all the outside distractions that wreck trust. I open up more now, stopped looking for advantages and accept people for who they are, not some version I want them or me to be. It’s a rough situation at times, but if you care enough to try and willing to accept reality, things will work out for all. I can’t have all of what I want, but what I have is pretty good.
As I said, Todd’s responses are always colorful. The reason for that is because in his situation you have to either laugh or cry and he isn’t a crier. He accepts his situation but, as anyone else, he still needs some attention and support.
I then talked to an inmate named Neil Edger who is currently in the prison system in California. Neil was convicted of killing his fiancé with a claw hammer. Neil has been on our podcast, Sex love and serial killers, a few times. Neil is always well thought out in his responses. He basically said to me that everyone needs to feel that human connection and has a need for physical touch. You also need to be wanted and desired as well. When you are behind bars it helps to know that there is someone out there who cares about you and that you can talk to on the phone and have them come and visit you. There are a lot of ways to be intimate with your girl without the need for sex. Sex would be great, but I do not get “Family” visits in private like some of the other inmates do. You can have intimacy through touch when they come and see you, or the words of support while you are locked up. Trust is a huge issue for me. I want to know that my girl loves me and only me. I know that can be hard on anyone when they are on the outside and I am on the inside though. Trust works both ways though. Your girl doesn’t want her man to be calling every girl out there and telling them they same thing that they are telling her.
I found out that this whole dating people that are in prison is a slippery slope to say the least. There are some people, men and women both, who use others to get what they want in prison. It is common for inmates to ask for money to be put on their books for commissary. There is no real romantic connection there, instead it is a scam to have a person who is on the outside fund them while they are locked up. In my own opinion, there is really no real way to have a relationship with someone who is locked up unless you were involved with them while they were still free. It is a dynamic change when they get out as well. I am not saying that finding love with someone who is in prison that you didn’t know before they were locked up is wrong or impossible, I am just saying that there is a lot to be considered before taking that step into the world of commitment.